Toyota has issued a "Stop Selling" order on 6 models

[390gtconv]

Talk about a "heated seat" 2013-2014 if anyone has one fyi.
http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20140130&id=17306630

[Jibber]

Interesting.

[chachee52]

Gee, and people still trust to buy Toyotas. How many "mishaps" does it take for people to stop saying they are reliable?

[TorchredSVT]

it's the law of averages.....of course they are going to have problems. When you make / sell as many vehicles as toyota does across the globe you are going to hear about issues.

[MY-S281]

Not defending Toyota here but just not sure a heated seat issues falls under reliability ?? More of a design issue if you ask me !

Especially seeing there hasn't been any occurrences of this being an actual issue as of yet, sounds like they are being "proactive" instead of being "reactive " which is a good thing in my opinion.. ! Plus I see many US automakers are having their own challenges as well ! :-)'

Like Ian said with the volumes its just a matter of time for someone to have some kind of issue !

here a few just from this month !


GM recalls 303,000 new Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra pickups for engine fire risk : Jan 2014

Ford Recalls 27,933 Edge Crossovers in the U.S. because a damper in the fuel line could crack and cause fuel leaks.: Jan. 2014
Chrysler to Recall Fire-Prone Jeeps to Add Trailer Hitches:Jan 2014

[390gtconv]

Not defending Toyota here but just not sure a heated seat issues falls under reliability ?? More of a design issue if you ask me !

Especially seeing there hasn't been any occurrences of this being an actual issue as of yet, sounds like they are being "proactive" instead of being "reactive " which is a good thing in my opinion.. ! Plus I see many US automakers are having their own challenges as well ! :-)'

Like Ian said with the volumes its just a matter of time for someone to have some kind of issue !

here a few just from this month !


GM recalls 303,000 new Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra pickups for engine fire risk : Jan 2014

Ford Recalls 27,933 Edge Crossovers in the U.S. because a damper in the fuel line could crack and cause fuel leaks.: Jan. 2014
Chrysler to Recall Fire-Prone Jeeps to Add Trailer Hitches:Jan 2014


First off: not a question of how many you sell, it's how many models you design, build & support. Then hire the staff to support it. One person not covering whole company, there are thousands I'm sure.

Now in this Toyota case, I've READ that the problem occured when Toyota decided to switch vendors for new seat covers and such. So NOT a design issue but a quality control issue TOYOTA owns that. Having worked in mfg my whole life, when you source a supplier, they have to follow approved eng specs. Gov specs. in some cases. That supplier has to build samples and Toyota (or whomever) has to sign off on it. Soooooooo what happened, They dropped to ball. The question is are the heated seat covers meet the specs? If not TOYOTA again not paying attention to quality. This is NOT a design issue but QUALITY Control!!

[ToplessPony94]

Not defending Toyota here but just not sure a heated seat issues falls under reliability ?? More of a design issue if you ask me !

Especially seeing there hasn't been any occurrences of this being an actual issue as of yet, sounds like they are being "proactive" instead of being "reactive " which is a good thing in my opinion.. ! Plus I see many US automakers are having their own challenges as well ! :-)'

Like Ian said with the volumes its just a matter of time for someone to have some kind of issue !

I'm with Barry on this one. While I'd always rather be driving my Mustang, my 2009 Prius commute car is over 5 years old now, a hair shy of 96k miles (all mine), problems with the car: ZERO (unless you count a rock-smashed fog light or getting hit in the ass by a Lexus SUV, which George can attest to since he was in the car at the time!)

Replacement tires had issues (can't blame Toyota for that!) but I never had any issues with anything else. No unintended acceleration issues (a myth), no issues with braking (another myth), etc. etc. Battery still tests out as good as brand new, mileage a little bit less than advertised most of the time, which is normal for any car from what I've seen. In short, nothing to complain about.

[Jibber]

What George said..... I second that motion.

My wife and I feel we've been burned by a Toyota product so we will never go back to one.
Our issue is two fold. We have a quality concern with the van as well as a service after the sale with the dealer.
Now, I know this happens to ALL manufacturers, but I at least feel better when I move on to the "next guy". I don't feel so trapped. Especially when the others are making very good vehicles.

[MY-S281]

First off: not a question of how many you sell, it's how many models you design, build & support. Then hire the staff to support it. One person not covering whole company, there are thousands I'm sure.

Now in this Toyota case, I've READ that the problem occured when Toyota decided to switch vendors for new seat covers and such. So NOT a design issue but a quality control issue TOYOTA owns that. Having worked in mfg my whole life, when you source a supplier, they have to follow approved eng specs. Gov specs. in some cases. That supplier has to build samples and Toyota (or whomever) has to sign off on it. Soooooooo what happened, They dropped to ball. The question is are the heated seat covers meet the specs? If not TOYOTA again not paying attention to quality. This is NOT a design issue but QUALITY Control!!

I too come from a MFG background, Great Point about it being a Quality matter, But again my main point was that they same circumstances apply to all automakers because they all seem to have issues of one sort or another from time to time , so the " quality control " problems are not exclusive to Toyota !

[390gtconv]

I too come from a MFG background, Great Point about it being a Quality matter, But again my main point was that they same circumstances apply to all automakers because they all seem to have issues of one sort or another from time to time , so the " quality control " problems are not exclusive to Toyota !

Agreed. But we're talking on THIS Toyota "STOP Sell" order at hand. No recall yet. And I'm sure we could sit and list diff recalls of each mfg. But again I'm answering only to this one now. You can indirectly blame a parts supplier BUT the last company to touch and own it is the car mfg for not doing its sampling or whatever it needed to over see its parts.

As far as "being proactive", well they had to. US Gov fined them in Dec 2012 for $17.35 million for not acting.

[MY-S281]

Agreed. But we're talking on THIS Toyota "STOP Sell" order at hand. No recall yet. And I'm sure we could sit and list diff recalls of each mfg. But again I'm answering only to this one now. You can indirectly blame a parts supplier BUT the last company to touch and own it is the car mfg for not doing its sampling or whatever it needed to over see its parts.

As far as "being proactive", well they had to. US Gov fined them in Dec 2012 for $17.35 million for not acting.

Yes they certainly had to, it could have been disastrous if they didn't, !

I think we are pretty much in agreement when looking at the big picture , as to this specific issue, and how it related to the "STOP Sell " , my initial point was, I didn't consider it a " reliability" issue that should effect peoples " trust " in Toyota as an Automaker because " mishaps" happen to all of them at some point..

[TorchredSVT]

I am in no means defending Toyota either.....BUT the whole bashing of a japanese automaker and "buy american" is just such an old school way of thinking.

Today's youth just don't think like that. It's all about perceived value. Will this specific issue be enough to sway the world to stop buying Toyota and buy more Ford or GM? The answer is no.

[390gtconv]

Yes they certainly had to, it could have been disastrous if they didn't, !

I think we are pretty much in agreement when looking at the big picture , as to this specific issue, and how it related to the "STOP Sell " , my initial point was, I didn't consider it a " reliability" issue that should effect peoples " trust " in Toyota as an Automaker because " mishaps" happen to all of them at some point..
The "trust thing" is the bigger picture and how often recall of a mfg continue come up and most importantly the criticallity of a recall. Also failing a gov standard crash test will NOT help.

[MY-S281]

The "trust thing" is the bigger picture and how often recall of a mfg continue come up and most importantly the criticallity of a recall. Also failing a gov standard crash test will NOT help.

Failing a Gov, Std. test would not help anyone, especially the consumers . And for discussion purposes only, again, I dont think this types of issues are exclusive matters with Toyota.

Ironically , it appears that Ford actually has what I would consider to be most Critical recalls of anyone, and I still trust them... ! I think a lot of it is perception .



http://editorial.autos.msn.com/10-largest-auto-recalls-in-history

[390gtconv]

Failing a Gov, Std. test would not help anyone, especially the consumers . And for discussion purposes only, again, I dont think this types of issues are exclusive matters with Toyota.

Ironically , it appears that Ford actually has what I would consider to be most Critical recalls of anyone, and I still trust them... ! I think a lot of it is perception .



http://editorial.autos.msn.com/10-largest-auto-recalls-in-history

All mfg's are working to improve quality. Yea I 'd only be concerned about more recent recalls that are critical that cause fires or crashes. ~ Ten yrs or so ago most all sucked. More recent like:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/recall-roundup-bmw-chrysler-maserati-mercedes-issue-recalls-012500350.html
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/11/21/toyota-recalling-150000-tacoma-pickups/
http://money.cnn.com/2013/11/08/autos/chrysler-truck-recall/index.html?iid=HP_LN
plenty to go around with all mfgs. But who's are fewer and farther between affecting to most vehicles you gotta ask.

[chachee52]

I did not intend to bash Toyota. I am the first person to say every car has lemons. I just hear a lot "don't buy this because A.BC" and then "Toyota is the best". And even reading surveys, Toyota has still ranked in the top for consumer perception of reliability even with all the recalls and safety issues that have gone on in the last few years. I do think that the "Japan vs American" battle is still alive and very healthy. Honestly right now, there isn't a Ford DD that I would buy, so it's not a "I'm in love with Ford" thing either.
More of a perception of what the manufacturers have done that made me post what I posted.
Honestly I truly believe that the car market is reverting back to the 80's in that the quality control issues seem to be coming back. I don't know if it's because they are trying to put too much technology that isn't tested yet, or if they are trying to skimp on the less important things (like seat heaters) or a combination of all of the above. Either way, to me right now is a hard time to buy a new car. I'm not looking forward to it in the next year or two!!

[390gtconv]

I did not intend to bash Toyota. I am the first person to say every car has lemons. I just hear a lot "don't buy this because A.BC" and then "Toyota is the best". And even reading surveys, Toyota has still ranked in the top for consumer perception of reliability even with all the recalls and safety issues that have gone on in the last few years. I do think that the "Japan vs American" battle is still alive and very healthy. Honestly right now, there isn't a Ford DD that I would buy, so it's not a "I'm in love with Ford" thing either.
More of a perception of what the manufacturers have done that made me post what I posted.
Honestly I truly believe that the car market is reverting back to the 80's in that the quality control issues seem to be coming back. I don't know if it's because they are trying to put too much technology that isn't tested yet, or if they are trying to skimp on the less important things (like seat heaters) or a combination of all of the above. Either way, to me right now is a hard time to buy a new car. I'm not looking forward to it in the next year or two!!

I'd have to say each brand has both good and bad cars/trucks in their line ups. Note that Ford has some high rating vehicles in the 2013 JD Power ranking has FOCUS, FUSION & MUSTANG rated as one of best in its class. Don't have to take my word. http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2013/02/lexus-porsche-top-2013-jd-power-dependability-study.html
Other hand Escape hasn't done well. scroll does bottom half of page on link.

[chachee52]

I'd have to say each brand has both good and bad cars/trucks in their line ups. Note that Ford has some high rating vehicles in the 2013 JD Power ranking has FOCUS, FUSION & MUSTANG rated as one of best in its class. Don't have to take my word. http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2013/02/lexus-porsche-top-2013-jd-power-dependability-study.html
Other hand Escape hasn't done well. scroll does bottom half of page on link.

Agreed, Unfortunately I am looking for an Escape sized car to tow my trailers and put my other toys in. I would buy another Focus in a heartbeat (love the new design) but I need a little more room and towing capacity. and honestly, none of the others in its class are very good IMO either.

[ToplessPony94]

Agreed, Unfortunately I am looking for an Escape sized car to tow my trailers and put my other toys in. I would buy another Focus in a heartbeat (love the new design) but I need a little more room and towing capacity. and honestly, none of the others in its class are very good IMO either.

I had a 2013 Focus for a while when the Prius was being repaired from the rear collision. My feelings were different. My Prius is 5 years old and had 95K on the clock at the time and still feels like a new car. The Focus was less than a year old with 10K on the clock and felt like a car 4-6 years old. I had looked forward to driving the Focus. Very much to my surprise I ended up referring to it as "the shitbox". I couldn't wait to get the Prius back!

[chachee52]

I had a 2013 Focus for a while when the Prius was being repaired from the rear collision. My feelings were different. My Prius is 5 years old and had 95K on the clock at the time and still feels like a new car. The Focus was less than a year old with 10K on the clock and felt like a car 4-6 years old. I had looked forward to driving the Focus. Very much to my surprise I ended up referring to it as "the shitbox". I couldn't wait to get the Prius back!

I had an '02 (maybe '03) ZX5 Focus. I loved that car. At the time I could fit all the stuff I needed (before I got bigger toys), the engine was rock solid and the suspension wasn't bad either.
I don't like the new Escapes, the drive I didn't think was as good as the one I have (more the comfort inside) and with all the eco-boost issues to work out I think that it will be a long time before I consider another new Escape. But like I said before, is the quality of the Escape the quality of the product itself or the technology just isn't ready to be brought to the public? I don't know. Also with the Technology costing so much, the little things like the trims and seats have to take a price cut to lower quality to keep the car in the price range it should be. Either way, the consumer loses. And that goes across the board, not just on Fords or Toyotas as the topic started with. Just my look on the car scene.

[390gtconv]

Todd get a hitch for you mustang after spring time rebuild.

[chachee52]

Todd get a hitch for you mustang after spring time rebuild.

I actually do have the hitch for the Mustang. Joe had one in his shed from his old car and gave it to me. I'm thinking about getting a second bumper so that I can put my utility trailer on the Mustang and tow all the show stuff with it, but also when I want to head to the Lake and go Kayaking.
I'm always one step ahead of you!!!

[390gtconv]

I'm always one step ahead of you!!!

Well then studded snow tire would be next!!!

[chachee52]

Well then studded snow tire would be next!!!
Almost took the car out yesterday, but then remembered I got a power steering issue :(

[390gtconv]

Almost took the car out yesterday, but then remembered I got a power steering issue :(
No idea if a hose or pump leaking?

[chachee52]

No idea if a hose or pump leaking?

Haven't really looked at it yet. It truly happened as I was driving the car into the garage for the last time of the season.

[TorchredSVT]

Agreed, Unfortunately I am looking for an Escape sized car to tow my trailers and put my other toys in. I would buy another Focus in a heartbeat (love the new design) but I need a little more room and towing capacity. and honestly, none of the others in its class are very good IMO either.

the word "car" and "towing" don't really ever belong in the same sentence. You won't find much out there outside of the small SUV world that can tow anything. Yes, my 4cyl terrian has a two rating of 6k lb's...but that doesn't mean I'd use it.

[chachee52]

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/toyota-tops-consumers-reports--2014-car-brand-perception-survey-021905033.html

This is the survey I was commenting on. To me, I know that all cars have recalls, it just seems like Toyota has had more big ones that have been publicized, and people still put them on top perceived best car manufacturer.
I truly don't have anything to say bad about Toyota, I've never had one to say anything bad. It's just an observation.

[390gtconv]

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/toyota-tops-consumers-reports--2014-car-brand-perception-survey-021905033.html

This is the survey I was commenting on. To me, I know that all cars have recalls, it just seems like Toyota has had more big ones that have been publicized, and people still put them on top perceived best car manufacturer.
I truly don't have anything to say bad about Toyota, I've never had one to say anything bad. It's just an observation.

Well Todd, check out this list posted today 2/5. FORD is doing ok, better than most believe it or not.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/02/toyota-ford-top-consumer-reports-brand-perception-survey.html